Social Media & the Law Q&A

gram as well on your instagram erica so definitely jump on the scout social instagram erica would love to see a few more subscribers out of today and that also flows into our scout social training competition so if you love the podcast and you want to jump on that podcast workshop that might be one of the ones that you get to go to with your prize so there's we've got a pretty good

short list so far but there's still an opportunity to sort of brad bring in at the end and and get a really good one i'm so i bet he's really glad he got that gold medal in the year is it he's just yeah so um we're going to take afternoon tea at the moment uh we've basically taken jen's entire concept for catering for afternoon tea so we'll cram in some sugar and

then we have adelaide's most famous handsome ip lawyer who's going to talk to us all about how not to get sued all right so have a good break everyone four o'clock we'll come back the bell ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding is that the time bell paul wanted a bell everyone i haven't just suddenly lost my mind um that happened a little while ago so we're good all right now

paul i think you are the only speaker to speak three years in a row brilliant i think that's uh yeah a round of applause yes but i think that's also a testament to the fact that when we send out feedback surveys and things everyone's just like oh gordon's the best bring back paul gordon yeah what are other people's forms said i know i do about 12 of those each year well i

imagine now that you're a partner in a big law firm you've just got a team that i just fill out feedback surveys yeah that's that's what it's all about i'm not sure where you got our attendee list from but um you know it's it's a good start um but yeah no the reason we bring paul back every year is because first of all paul's very generous with his time in actually sharing

with us the the legal aspects that apply to to our profession um and also just scaring the bejesus out of us um my favorite takeaway from last year is that you can get sued for those simpsons memes that you you share so lena's been hammering the animated gifts all day so when we get sued lena just spring pole and uh yeah we'll have a chat the other way around i should encourage

you to do it so that everyone gets into trouble and then they call me yeah is this the woman's are a sponsor so we first of all would like to thank mormons for for sponsoring this year um and second of all we'd like to sort of avoid women's getting a lot of billing for use of gifts um but uh this this session is strictly q a so paul and i have got

a few questions that we wanted to ask that are topical in the industry um and then the floor is open to all of you so start thinking about your questions now lena's going to be running around with the mic um catch catch don't throw okay good um so start thinking questions now but when we get to question time we do need to limit it to one question per person so everybody gets

a turn um and if you want some additional questions then paul will be quite happy to uh to make an appointment and and have a chat and there's a nice big woman's book in in your delegate satchel to get some more questions answered so here's some that we prepared earlier um first of all it was hilarious that you weren't recognized when you turned up andrea was so embarrassed but she was like

he's so much younger than i thought i will take that i'm very proud of the fact that the lawyers were very generous with youth so even though i've been admitted to practice 10 years i'm still considered officially to be a young lawyer which i just love so i'll take any of the the youth that they'll give me um it's probably also to do with the the digital specialization is something that comes

in there yeah absolutely um but i wanted to start by talking about something that isn't law related at all okay um because you've got quite a few varied interests outside of law which i think probably informs your expertise there obviously you are on the board of fresh 927 yes but you also have a ticketing platform uh called dramatics right now i guess i'd like to learn a little bit more about the

platform but i'd also like to know did the interest in tech law come before or after the startup so the startups were so i started dramatics with a friend in 2006 so i would have been in second year law school at that time and it was born out of necessity because we were trying to get tickets to a concert i can't remember which one and we were using a well-known platform and

i think it took us so long to create an account to buy tickets that by the time we had done that the tickets had sold out and so we were so frustrated with it and he was a coding genius um and just wrote the website overnight um he's now living in london doing amazing things so he just gave me the rest of the business and so i i just took it from

there now i should say that because it is a side hustle and it's probably not we're due for an up update very soon so if you look at it at the moment it's ugly i apologize we are working on it um but it's language which i i think generated that interest in digital business because suddenly i was dealing with how do you deal with coders once like i went offshore how do

you market an online business how do you deal with a saturated industry where you're trying to build recognition and all of those things and what are all of the elements that come around that so even though dramatics which no one ever pronounces correctly we even got in our logo there's a phonetic thing and no one gets it anyway even though it's not a major business even though it's not something which is

ever going to generate billions of dollars i've kept it going because i think it's important to have your eye as to how business actually works because when i'm advising people on there happens i can say i know exactly what it's like when the website goes down and you have 450 angry ballet mum happened website went down because they all wanted to buy tickets to their gallery recital fight crashed weren't happy so

how do you deal with angry customers who are all very passionate and emotional i can relate i can use some of my lived experience to uh inform how i advise legally so it's all very symbiotic yeah great and i guess they all bring you up and try to see you they well this is the key terms and conditions on your website are very important do you know something about that do you

a little bit probably microphones be quiet up so we'll just hand you a new one okay i can reap this you can so um a little bit more digital marketing focus this year as opposed to all social so it'd be interesting what do you think is the the area of um social and digital marketing law that all of us are probably most overlooking right now there are a number of different areas

that i think people don't necessarily considering in great detail and and that is just getting the the fundamentals right a lot of people will launch campaigns without thinking about what are the legal consequences of those campaigns be them competition permits terms and conditions um missiling deceptive conduct and all of the associated things when people launch in in one market without realizing it's going to have an impact legally in other markets or

just having as i said your terms and conditions right i think that a lot of people just don't don't consider that there are legal elements to everything online and whilst you might get away with not considering them for a while when it does bite you can have significant consequences so what would be the you know so the three things that we all need to get done as our fundamentals okay so the

first thing is can i just get a show of hands here who is in is anyone here in health industry yep we got some health uh or fitness no well that probably makes the afternoon tea appropriate um and anyone here with whose business has a turnover of more than three million dollars a year who's willing to admit it excellent good for you congratulations and anyone who does anything with europe yeah so

anyone who raised their hand when i was talking then if you do not have a privacy policy one have a privacy policy but two consult your privacy policy when you are doing a digital campaign to determine whether you're remarketing whether your digital ads or whatever it is are tracking and if you're not comparing it to your privacy policy that is the first tip that you you've got an issue with so a

lot of people will will come to us and say can you draft me a privacy policy sure thing we do it and they get it and they stick it on their website and then they don't look at it and three years later they're doing campaigns that have no clear relationship to what the privacy policy says so the top tip is read the privacy policy to make sure that what you're doing actually

fits in with what you're saying you're doing the second thing would be i guess manage customer expectation on what you're doing with their data it's all about data really um and whilst it's not strictly a legal issue you won't get into legal issues if you are open and transparent with people about what you're doing people don't like companies who are creepy um and it's the creepy ones who get sued so you

can be collecting data for your the targeting of your campaigns you can be using your mailing list in order to funnel it into whatever but if you're not being clear with people about why you're doing that how you're doing that and what they can do about it that's when you get into into trouble and i guess the third thing is the one which i think we're going to talk about in a

little while which is be very mindful about what other people say on your platforms be your website or your socials because you are responsible and the recent court case that we've seen has made that abundantly clear we will come back to that but i've got to follow a question from that so some people think that if we put a facebook pixel on our site we put some uh google ads retargeting you

know that's that's google's problem that's facebook's problem and their policies apply there but it's not really the case is it no because you do not have so there is not a contractual relationship between the customer and google or the customer and facebook when you're doing that the customer isn't necessarily consenting to google or facebook's terms and conditions when you use their tools more to the point the terms and conditions from google

and facebook say in using our product you agree that you have the consent of every third party out there so you can't in any sense rely upon that for the use of those campaigns now what you might be able to say is well are they actually capturing identifiable information and um could someone complain about it on that in that sense and it's all going to depend upon degree as to what information

you you are gathering and how it's all working but it can be a significant issue for companies and businesses if they aren't getting that consent so that brings me perfectly to my next question so as marketers we we like to think we're pretty clever um but a lot of our day-to-day is basically just varying customer and prospect data offshore because not many of them store their data within australia and that's usually

to to u.s data centers things like crms email marketing obviously retargeting is a great example and whatever else we can find because we'll literally just find anything and grab it and stick it where we can what are the legal implications of this and what do we need to do to protect ourselves and our clients so offshoring of data it happens every day there are some organizations some i mean i didn't ask

is anyone here from government yep got a few government so all of your data will be on shore generally um if the government knows about it however of those government people anyone hear you survey monkey there you go that data is not in australia so even in government they are there is data that is being exfiltrated to overseas locations and the problem that you've got there is that in certain overseas locations

like the us there are particular data laws that allow u.s governments to look at that data which can be a major issue if it's in the eu then you may have additional obligations with respect to how that data is held under the gdpr and under australian law if your data is held overseas and something goes wrong you are liable even if it was due to the negligence or failure of an offshore

company so let's say you're hosted with hosting company x in texas and their data center is sold to a telemarketing company who decide that they're going to access all those records using a unilateral term in your in the contract that you have with them that allows them to do what they want with your data you are now responsible for a major data breach and you're the one who will have to go

to the information commissioner cap in hand so the key uh steps that you need to take to protect yourself are firstly make sure you understand the relationship with the offshore processor be it a service provider like surveymonkey or just a data center somewhere in the u.s or singapore or wherever it is and make sure that the contract is tight in terms of the fact that they can't unilaterally decide we're going to

do something with your data they can't use it for other purposes than what you've provided to them for so that's protecting yourself on the one hand on the other what you need to do is make sure that you are open with your customer base that we use surveymonkey it has servers in the us and switzerland and if you take part in this survey your data will be processed in those places um

those if you do those two things you should be fine so what ex like so this time last year everybody was talking about cambridge analytica because it was coming out and it was becoming a thing in the news again at the moment because facebook got a slap on the um you know like i call a slap on the wrist it's a five billion dollar fine i was gonna say it's a that's

a big risk if it's just getting a slap i'll make it back next week but that's fine um but if your facebook page data was part of that leak at what stage is the liability between you and facebook there and at what stage is that data considered facebook's rather than yours so under the facebook terms conditions the data is always yours they very carefully say that they do not own any of

your data because if they did that would give them additional obligations you give them a license to the data and they can do what they want with it but in terms of when the liability switches i think that it comes down to to what extent did you know or should have reasonably known what was going on so if the facebook terms and conditions are updated to say that we will give your

information give your clients information to third parties who will weaponize it for political purposes and you clicked i agree because you didn't actually read the whole way down you may have a problem so that's really when it would switch over i think that if there was nothing that you could have known about what was being done then someone finding liability on for you to find that you've breached an obligation would be

more challenging okay great but i'll put my tinfoil hat away then good um and so of course we've got a question here about that recent new south wales supreme court decision so i'm not sure whether anyone followed this but um the new south wales supreme court uh declared that um brands could be liable for comments that were posted on their social media profiles i'm sure a lot of us read mumbrella has

anyone read umbrella yeah so they've basically decided that they're going to stop posting articles facebook because it's not worth the hassle of the comments that will come through and trying to manage those comments so paul would you say this is an extreme response uh and is there a better way to tackle this and protect your your organization or your business i think it's telling that the entity that has been first off

the block to say not where we're exiting facebook is the advertising news um i think they know what they're doing when they want to make a splash and that this was probably more of a statement than a carefully thought out policy decision um it might have been but i think that probably it was being done more for the impact that it would have about how difficult this decision is to implement um

i think that we're seeing a two two different stories within a short period of time we've got umbrella exiting facebook plus on the other hand you've got certain news called publications now paying journalists bonuses based on the number of likes comments and shares that they get so when you look at the the decision's fascinating because it says that something like and i'm getting at the statistic wrong 39 of traffic to the

australians website comes from people clicking on facebook links so for them it is not a question of do we exit facebook because that's 39 of their traffic so we've got a situation where social media is now essential then you have this decision which effectively makes it unworkable and it is on appeal so it's been appealed we don't know when that's going to be heard when the judgment will come out but um

does that is has everyone followed the case no got a couple of heads shaking so i might give a not many lawyers here that follow legal statute paul that's your job who follow legal search um okay so the case if apologies to those who know but the case involved a guy called dylan voller you might recall some years ago when the dondell detention center was in the news there was an image

of a young man restrained in a chair with a hood over his head as part of their detention practices then all over the news a number of news sites ran that image and then had facebook links to the image and their stories about dondell and on those facebook stories people had commented some absolutely abhorrent things and whilst dylan voller is no angel those comments were without question not only defamatory but they

were also probably in breach of other elements of the law such as using a carriage service to harass or intimidate because there were death threats so kids legal team decided that they were unhappy with this and so they sued a bunch of different media organizations buzzfeed news corp and others alleging defamation and so they went after not the people who had made the comments but and also not against facebook but against

the news publications and they allege that look these things had been on the facebook pages of those publications for a long period of time they hadn't been taken down and therefore they were defamatory the news organizations said in court well this is the first we heard about vola's concerns was when we received a statement of claim lobbed on our desk so when the court proceedings were taken there was no pre-action communication

saying look we've got concerns about comments can you please take them down they said that it was not reasonable for them to be expected to be considered the publisher of those comments when they weren't made aware of them they weren't posted by the news organizations and they weren't given a reasonable opportunity to respond the judgment that we have did not consider whether or not the comments were defamatory you did not consider

whether or not um they met there were any defenses to uh a claim of defamation all that it was considering was were the news outlets the publishers of the defamatory comments and therefore liable for them during the case there was a lot of evidence given about how facebook works how comments work and what could be done and the judge looked at it all and he said well it is notionally possible people

have given evidence to say that whilst you can either just turn all comments off and not have anything posted in certain circumstances i think he said you could do that in all circumstances which i don't believe is actually correct um but he said what you can do is create a filter so you've got the profanity filter i'm telling you i'm sure everything one thing that they already know you put in the

words and then anything that comes up with those words you can moderate in advance he said what you should do is you should fill your filter with common words a th and he she and then using that as a de facto filter you duct tape one together so that every comment that comes up you can moderate so the judgment that was handed down was effectively that if you don't moderate every comment

before it is seen you are responsible which is it's interesting um to lawyers basically it if there's been a line of authorities that have been developing over the years and those have been here the last couple years would have heard me talk about algae pathways which was the case that said that you shouldn't tell people that you can cure peanut allergies with acupressure but it also said that you're responsible for what

third parties post if you don't take it down within a reasonable period of time so the big shift here is not that third-party content can be the responsibility of a news outlet the big story here is it's not good enough anymore according to this decision to moderate regularly you now have to pre proactively prevent things from going up in the first place before anyone can see the defendry comment so that's a

a very substantial shift and it'll be very interesting to see what the appeal court says um it's also interesting that there is now judicial authority to say that you have to effectively duct tape together your own solution even though it can easily be overcome if someone uploads an image that has text in it or replaces certain letters with symbols people will get past filters there's no question about that and so the

reality of the situation i think will be uh a little bit concerning but um i'm just gonna do a very quick plug in your bags you will see there are flowcharts they were here last year here again one of those is is this common defamatory if you have a look it's a bound book in your bags get familiar with the misleading deceptive conduct the copyright and the defamation pages because you now

have a responsibility to assess every post made by a third party on your company's page to see if that's the case so the good news for digital marketers is this well the good news should be the companies now have an obligation to hire lots more of you so that they can actually handle the workload of moderating each and every comment um but i guess like at what point does the third party

as you put it the in this context let's call them the bonehead the bonehead who makes the boneheaded comments and we've all seen them like at what point do they have a a liability here they have liability from the first second it's posted the difficulty is that a they're difficult to track down and b they don't have as much money as a media corporation so in terms of who you're gonna sue

so if someone came to me and said look we've got this bonehead over here who's making bad comments i will absolutely say okay well we need to try and stop them but the client says i want to get money out of this chances are they're not going to have any so who you're going to look at the company whose page it was posted on because they almost certainly have more money than

that individual unless you're just you know being sighed off by clive palmer or something so which let's be honest it's entirely possible entirely possible so does that mean that let's say the and don't anyone get any ideas from this scenario okay don't get any ideas say somebody put something that could be considered defamatory on the the digital adelaide page um let's say they say paul gordon isn't the best looking lawyer in

adelaide clearly that's definitely really defamatory now you sue the event um because that needs to be taken down do we then have the ability to sue the bonehead that put that comment up so you would probably what's being called join it would be a joiner application so you join them as a co-defendant and say look they are liable but at the end of the day there are two publications that have been

done firstly the publication by the individual who put it up and secondly the publication by the event both of those are actionable so the mere fact that someone else has put up the comment does not exonerate the company from liability so how does this work with a platform like twitter or instagram where the comment doesn't get posted on the brand's profile but the brand can be tagged we can use hashtags and

incorporate the comment in there is there a is there a liability that extends to the use of um tags and hashtags so we haven't seen that specifically dealt with judicially we can extrapolate from the facebook judgment as to what it might be and there's also the only case that really involved twitter was one where it was it was a slightly different issue so there there was someone who was posting confidential information

up on twitter and twitter was sued to prevent that from being displayed in the future um i think that it the past decisions we've had and so the stance that i normally take is that if you are tagged or if it is one of your hashtags that is used and a comment is made that is misleading or deceptive or which represents that your company has made a statement of some kind which

is defamatory then you would have an obligation to respond to correct it but obviously in a twitter instance you're not going to be able to pre-moderate the comments because there's no it's not on your page it is simply tagging you in so i do think there is an obligation on companies to respond to correct but i don't think it extends as far as it does on facebook but in that instance what

would you consider to be a reasonable time frame to act the acc and the advertising standards board have said it depends thanks it's really helpful um effectively the guidance that i would normally give is that if you are a one person business with no staff then if you're checking once a day you're probably all right if you are a multinational with a team of digital marketers then you probably should be checking

a lot more frequently so it all depends upon the size and scope of your capacity to respond yeah that's horrifying thanks paul um i want to open it up to questions from the floor now uh one down the front here i really like it when you come paul it just fills me with joy oh just it's nice to see you at everything yeah i assume that's what you're talking about yeah well

yeah yeah oh gosh it seems to be a lot of this is based on case by case and as things come up it'll be dealt in and reviewed do you ever think it will get to a point in digital media law that it won't be a case-by-case scenario it'll be like we know what to do when this happens etc etc like will there ever be a place where there isn't a lack

of clarity not for a long time and and the reason for that is because of the evolutionary pace of digital so if you compare how you even though you know facebook has been around for you know quite a while now the way in which people interact with it has changed such that it is not the same as it was 10 years ago and as the platforms mature and evolve so too do

the legal issues have to uh socially legal issues and therefore so does the law have to catch up we've seen in other contexts when the parliament tries to legislate to deal with new technologies they simply create more problems than they're trying to solve so the example that always comes to my mind is that up until 2006 it was unlawful to rip a song from a cd and play it on your ipod

even though you bought that cd um so they did and it was also unlawful to record a tv show on vhs and watch it um so i'm glad that they sort out the vhs issue because that's very pressing in in my life um but that's just you know they they are very far behind from a legislative perspective when it comes to the court cases they'll by their nature be case by case

however they do set precedence that will apply more broadly so we're just seeing this incremental movement so it started in 2010 with allergy pathways where we first saw that there was liability for third-party posts then in 2012 we saw advertising standards board come on board with that and talk about smyrna vodka and the fact that uh people saying that smirnoff improves your sexual prowess on their facebook page was an advert by

smirnoff um and then we had the twitter decision in 2014.

now we've got the vola decision so progressively we are seeing all of these things happen on a case-by-case basis but they all build on each other and they all create precedence that we then apply to everyday situations and whilst we can't give definitive answers to every question we can certainly see the way in which the judiciary at least are treating this all right good question on the back andrea hi paul um

just to turn the tables a little bit onto the to the users um it's i noticed there was a lawsuit um recently about um a woman who commented in the review section about her plastic surgeon and he was actually able to sue her for defamation do you think there's going to be more of that happening in the review section because at the moment obviously it's a bit of a dumpster fire the

way that facebook and google manages those reviews i am seeing more and more people coming through my door asking about defamation for either reviews or comments and things like that um you you may all have seen my my wonderful colleague jenny paglia who's down the front here uh on the adelaide now page about good vibrations um i can say these things because it was in the paper so i figured it's no

bridge confidentiality but you know they're trying to unmask people who have been leaving anonymous reviews that are factually incorrect and defamatory um it will happen more and more and there's a little bit of a watch this space we've actually got a couple of lines in the fire about this kind of stuff to see where the law is actually going to sit as to to what extent can people be unmasked and once

unmasked what can you do about it because part of the problem that you you have and the reason why this will only happen in a handful of cases is that the bar to starting commencing proceedings is quite high because of the cost so if you want to file an action in the supreme court of south australia to sue someone for serious and significant defamation just the filing fee is close to four

grand no lawyer costs at that stage and if you have to you know get pre-action discovery from google or from facebook then you're adding to that expense and then you have to have the initial hearings where you try and find out who they are so it adds up really quickly and so what we're trying to do is to try and find if there are cheaper and easier ways of doing that um

so yeah watch this space on that um however the one thing which i think we'll we'll probably need to look at from a societal perspective is whether or not there is a tribunal set up to deal with digital cases because it is a specialized area it is becoming more and more of concern to people and it's we need to have a faster cheaper way of getting people access to justice um i've

got a question about something you touched on earlier at the start about competition um terms and conditions um in my role we do a lot of events and we often work with other businesses who might sponsor the event or specifically sponsor a prize for a competition and i was wondering if you had any advice regarding like the responsibility between not only our terms and conditions for that competition but theirs and who

has to host what and yeah any advice around that yep so if you are running the competition you are running the competition so you might be doing it collaboratively in which case both of you are liable but if you are the one who is actually doing it whether they sponsor the prize or not you have the obligation to get the permits if necessary you have the obligation to have compliant terms and

conditions um i would recommend having something in writing from them as to what their expectations are you want to make sure that you know what your sponsorship obligations are what you're promising them so that if it doesn't achieve what they thought they were getting you can at least point to something but yeah competition is is a frustrating area just because there are so many different regulations that apply um and in digital

it becomes it used to be okay because you know you're a south australian business you're doing a competition here it was for the big players who are going to do the nationals yeah local licensing 50 bucks consume business whatever it is but now you've got the situation where when you're doing it online it's open to everyone and then you've got wonderful little quirks like the fact that if you get a license

in one state then you don't need to get a license in another state but you do need to get in the third territory it's just all of these different things that you you learn when you're playing the game um but if you're not doing national competitions on a regular basis then it can be quite daunting um in regards to mainstream media outlets and their social media platforms and the defamation do you

think i don't know how to phrase this do you think there's a cop out that they were they waited so long to take down such defamation statements like they really know this uh because they are mainstream media outlets what has crossed the line and what shouldn't be published were they just waiting for it to hit the thoughts i think that it was quite telling that in the judgment much was made of

the commercial element to these posts and the fact that having greater engagement drove advertising revenues and therefore having controversial comments still visible still available was beneficial to the media outlets and so i think that that was to an extent implied in the judgment that well you didn't take these down not because you didn't know about them you didn't take these down because you were benefiting from them my personal view is that

the outcome of the media companies being responsible for this conduct isn't surprising i think that that is wholly consistent with the progression of law that we've had from 2010 to today well and further back there the um initial cases that dealt with this were actually bulletin board cases so you'd have a country club and someone would you know write scribble on a piece of paper i don't like john smith he's a

jerk and they'd put it on the bulletin board and then the question would be is the country club liable for not taking down that little scribble piece of paper so the answer is yes if they saw it and didn't take it down i think that yeah the outcome is not what's surprising what's surprising is that they've said zero tolerance on it being up there in the first place so effectively if we

go back to the bulletin board analogy that they're saying is that you have to have someone standing by the bulletin board and when i come up with my little piece of paper you just hit it out of my hand and say no bad paul don't put that up there so that really is um the only surprising element these the news organizations absolutely had an obligation to be monitoring their facebook pages on

a regular basis um i would say multiple times a day from the majority of these organizations um and they clearly either didn't or if they did they didn't consider these to be defamatory for whatever reason come for one or two more i got a question while we're waiting paul something came up while you were talking a lot of people in the room small organizations non-profits now who after hearing paultalk is going

to go and probably get a new privacy policy or get some new terms and conditions yep a few one thing i find a lot of the time is when people do that they're worried about the cost of a lawyer um and so rather than go to a lawyer they go to i don't know mailchimp um i don't know some website they steal their policy they change the names and then they put

it on their site and i'm definitely not going to ask anyone to put their hands up because i know that we want to steer clear of that but um so first of all what are the risks associated with doing that kind of thing and second of all what does it actually cost to get a a secure privacy policy okay so in terms of using other people's content one of my favorite things

is when a client comes to me and says i just need you to review my privacy policy so i've got one written it's all good you don't need to do anything with it you just need to have a review of it and they send it through i think hmm that's an interesting turn of phrase and i just copy a sentence into google and there it comes up on 12 other websites that

everyone's copied each other from um and the risk is that these policies are generally up on your website and if someone who actually wrote it finds it then you have breached copyright and you are liable for damages under the copyright act which is really funny when it's a copyright statement that they've copied um so that which happens more often than it should the risks with that are firstly the copyright infringement but

secondly as i said before it's no good having a 20-page privacy policy that does not accurately reflect your business practices and provide full compliance with the privacy act and when i do a privacy policy yes there are sections of that privacy policy that are going to be the same in every privacy policy but there are many sections that aren't and so what we do is we try and understand what is your

business how do you deal with data that's all that's what it's all about how do you deal with data in and out etc um and the difficulty in giving a flat answer to how much is a privacy policy is that you companies who have are in health are going to have more complicated issues than companies who ask you know selling spanners in a hardware store um i would say rough guide anywhere

between eight hundred dollars through to two thousand dollars depending upon its complexity would be the range that you're looking in um i um might even get into well they they made the mistake of making me partner so i might now say that if you mention digital adelaide i'm happy to give a bit of a discount because i can do that now but also i'm happy to say that if anyone here just

wants to talk about your privacy policy even if you don't want to engage just as lawyers to do it i don't charge for your first 15-minute phone call just call me we'll talk we'll figure out is this something that you need help with is this something you can do on your own i'm not going to charge anyone who doesn't need the help um really would encourage you to to reach out because

if we can at least i'd rather steer you in the right direction than have people get into trouble by copying mailchimp's terms and conditions and telling everyone that the data that they are receiving is going to be held in switzerland the other thing that they made the mistake of is letting us record this and release the recording later that's really helpful yeah that is uh yeah sorry guys back at the office

um did anyone have any more questions for paul before you wrap up over over there hi um so we work at a university and we're trying to reach our alumni quite often and we have quite a large portion of alumni who we consider lost but people we don't have email addresses for so it's important to us to try and reach these people through social media but we've run into some problems where

we want to pull data from our crm and use date of birth and postcode to try and match these people without looking at our privacy policy do you see any issues with that that might be one where you might want to have a chat with me afterwards but what i will say is that the issue with privacy particularly privacy of what that is effectively direct marketing is would the individual whose information

you have reasonably expect you to use it in that way so if i sign up for a mailing list about chocolate chip cookies and suddenly i get an email from someone offering to do a reading of my star signs then i probably wouldn't have expected that if i enrolled at a school i went through and did my my study and then five years later 10 years later out of the blue i

received marketing material from them about getting reconnected with the alumni we're probably getting into some interesting territory and so the other thing that you have to be aware of is that you can't just change your privacy policy now it's your privacy policy at the point at which the information was collected that is relevant um you can change the policy now because the other thing is sorry direct marketing is one which requires

consent or a reasonable expectation the normal use of information there is no need for consent and then for users health information and sensitive information there's a need for consent so the other thing is that those people who didn't raise their hand during the section i said before you don't have to worry about privacy in australia at least at all because the actors doesn't apply so we've got this weird regime in australia

where those who are caught are caught with really strong obligations and those who aren't have no obligations at all so unfortunately in your instance yes there are some privacy issues i am i use typeform at the moment to um as a server as a data collection things if i want to check that out more about the data storage and stuff where how do i navigate that like what's the first step to

find out where that data's being stored and what my responsibilities might be yep so the first thing to look at is their terms and conditions and their privacy policy because both of those should have some information and if they don't then the only thing you can do is contact them and say look i'm using a service where do you host where do you not and it's not just where do you host

it's also where you process so it may be that they're taking data to a data center in the u.s where it's being processed and then it's being moved across being stored in australia that's still a problem so you need to ask them where will my data go other than just in transit to have the service provided to me i'll take that one more and then we'll wrap up photos um under 18

definitely need permission over 18.

nothing no um so in australia unlike in europe there is no right to your image that means that if i'm in a place which has not prohibited me from taking photos as a condition of entry i can take photos and i can use it for whatever whatever i want as a matter of morals then yes under 18 i'd always say get a release form from parents or from the the child themselves

but the the issue rather becomes how you use those photos one so if you took a photograph of me holding this water bottle and then blew it up on the billboard and said paul gordon recommends australian natural coals paul gordon recommends cole's brand spring water then i could sue you under the australian consumer law for implying that i endorsed a product the other issue that you've got is privacy so if you

can see that it's me even though my name's not there if i can be reasonably identified from the photograph then and you are called by the privacy act you are collecting personal information and have an obligation not to get my consent but to inform me hi i was in rundle mall the other day and you were walking past and i took your photo i will be using it as part of their

decoupage on my shop front and if you'd like to see my privacy policy you can find it here so those are the kinds of things that people who are regulated by the privacy act have to do when taking photographs of people which is why we do say that whilst it's not strictly a legal requirement that you get a release it's probably a good idea just to cover cover your bases on those

two issues all right well thanks very much paul really appreciate it i really appreciate walmart's support this year so definitely make use of paul's 15-minute offer so 15 minutes 150 attendees can somebody do that math for me how many hours of pro bono work has paul just given up it's great um but paul is definitely and i can speak from experience definitely one of the more practical lawyers in adelaide and his

expertise in this area i think everyone would agree is really appreciated so thank you very much paul so so what do we reckon will we bring paul back next year yes awesome four or four in a row all right it's good new record you're just a trendsetter yep um all right well we have to give away a very important prize for three um and paul you didn't actually accept the terms and

conditions for our promotion but i also need to give you this as a sign of asylum gratitude and i'll steal these from you because you're struggling with them now um andrea have you got the rest of the entries for me please thank you definitely hassle paul afterwards now while we're working that out i want to ask you a question so what do you reckon we do this again next year yes okay

good i was hoping you'd say that but now my second question is do do you want to do all social media next year ah okay cool do you want to do all digital marketing again next year okay well i've got a few yeses so that's good it's not exactly oprah level enthusiasm but i guess i'm not exactly oprah so that's fine um should we do both hey there we go a little

bit more enthusiasm i like it thank you um we will definitely be contacting everyone with uh some feedback surveys um but i've had a lot of positive feedback today and i really appreciate the army of tweets that came through and erica if all if i knew all we had to do to trend in adelaide was to say we're going to give away some scout courses we should have done this last year

um maybe we'll do it again next year i reckon now we had some really good ones now i'm gonna i'm gonna go through a couple of them and because we have phones and things i took some screenshots so now our first winner i really like this one my standout theme so far is the importance of personal human connection with people for successful digital marketing from research and understanding to within your content

to ongoing engagement use digital for what it does well and people for what they do well i really like the way that that summarized the morning so congratulations erica you've won a scout uh training session i if if it's okay with you though i think we might redraw that is that all right okay cool yeah good all right so um some really good ones now this one i really liked um and

obviously we're going to use standard international redraw rules here so if they've already left come on um porsha ryan are you still here hey i really like how you were quite prepared to share a fail on uh our facebook page this was meant to be a story but ended up a post uh myself and story right need to win a scout digital training tutorial to boost our digital media game i really

like that it spoke to me so thank you very much for that um yes congratulations portia i also really like the fact that there are a few people today that were just prepared to share mistakes um because we have to do that as part of a part of an industry to move on now am i doing this one next it was really good uh kate clavins hey so i really liked your

note-taking um some really good takeaways here um share in the moment content over highly produced content learn from mistakes typos in your facebook ads can help to increase comments and engagement when implementing new technologies ask does it serve a purpose or streamline a process i thought they were some really good takeaway tips so congratulations you'll be going to a scout course and what did we end up with for a third one

ah oh yeah yeah i remember this this was good um tom jordan are you still here oh tom ah tom we had a real chuckle at tom's instagram post because he somehow managed to write his name backwards and when we looked at his photos it actually put a photo of his name badge and it was flipped so his name was backwards in his name badge and not sure if he did that

accidentally or on purpose but we had quite the lulls about it so we thought we thought that was worthy but he didn't stick it out so it was ah yeah all right well we're talking about quality here right not quantity alex is he still here because it's not fun if you're not here oh he's gone okay good nah i did i just picked two come on yeah well tom's not here so

international regionals i hope this was a good argument oh that's harsh it's a sugar crash on a friday like and it's i channeled my inner jen that's exactly what she did last year and i was like everybody loved it i thought it was crazy but okay ah yeah all right quality quality yeah okay for for sustained quality and level of harassment over the last 24 hours christy sharma come on down so

yeah and just to pick on you a little bit more when we sent out the early bird offer this i think within five minutes she bought her tickets she was in the door um and uh yeah great ambassador for the event lots of good tips on there and she has publicly named and shown paul as giving away a lot of his free time so sorry you won't be a partner on monday

paul but we really appreciate the offer um i want to take a moment just to thank our valuable sponsors so it's really important that this event remains reasonably grassroots every year we want to get case studies in to make this all look a bit more achievable and like i said before just learn from our mistakes um the support of sponsors like the university of south australia to give us this great venue

and and get to create some great links with industry i can't overstate what an impact that has on our budget um if you we because we looked at this this year we went if unisa can't support the event again how much would the tickets have to be and there's too many people that want to come now so i was going to cost three or four hundred dollars a ticket just to cover

to cover additional venue costs um and so we really really appreciate the support of the university of south australia and i really do encourage you to support them when you're looking for tertiary study options obviously women's lawyers they've given you a great pack of really practical uh practical stuff in your goody bag and paul's obviously given away four weeks of his life so thank you very much for that um and scout

digital training i think everybody had a lot of fun with the twitter war and the instagram war um and uh really enjoyed reading all of those and and looking for some winners so i'm sure those winners will have a great time at their scout training and there is a book in your bag about those scout training sessions and i need to take a second to thank refuel um that is my company

that's a bit crappy of me but i want to thank the team at refuel for stepping up and helping us put this event on particular shout out to adam the intern who used to be an intern and uh adam has done all of the graphic design for digital adelaide and we thought he did such a good job that we brought him on full time so good job adam did you did you

pass that course i hope so okay good if anybody here works for flinders just make sure adam gets a pass please that would be really good um so thanks again for all of you as well the level of support has been brilliant so we really appreciate it um obviously now as i mentioned in the morning we're going to go to the west oak hotel for our debrief um so if you've got

time swing past have a couple of beers if you don't thanks very much for joining us and we look forward to putting on another event next year thank you you